---
title: "大般涅槃經 · 25 憍陳如品"
description: "大般涅槃经由南朝宋慧严、谢灵运等依据法显所译六卷本泥洹经与昙无谶所译北本涅槃经对照修订而成。本经详述释迦牟尼佛入灭前的教法，系统阐述如来藏思想、众生皆有佛性及一阐提亦可成佛的核心理念。作为大乘佛教的重要经典，它确立了中国佛教心性论的理论基础，对天台宗、华严宗等宗派教义形成具有深远影响，被誉为大乘佛教的终极教典之一。"
url: "https://rushiwowen.co/en/r/cmcvptu6v03x1i804idvbchgr"
---

## 大般涅槃經卷第三十五

> Mahaparinirvana Sutra, Volume 35

宋代沙門慧嚴等依泥洹經加之

> Song Dynasty Monk Huiyan and Others, Supplemented Based on the Nirvana Sutra

### 憍陳如品第二十五之一

> Chapter 25, Part 1: Kaundinya

爾時，世尊告憍陳如：「色是無常，因滅是色獲得解脫常住之色；受、想、行、識亦是無常，因滅是識獲得解脫常住之識。

> At that time, the World-Honored One addressed Kaundinya: "Form is impermanent. By extinguishing its causes, one attains the form of liberation, which is eternal and unchanging. Feeling, perception, mental formations, and consciousness are also impermanent. By extinguishing their causes, one attains the consciousness of liberation, which is eternal and unchanging."

「憍陳如！色即是苦，因滅是色獲得解脫安樂之色；受、想、行、識亦復如是。

> Kaundinya! Form is suffering. Through the cessation of form, one attains liberation and the peaceful joy of formlessness. So too are feeling, perception, mental formations, and consciousness.

「憍陳如！色即是空，因滅空色獲得解脫非空之色；受、想、行、識亦復如是。

> “Kaundinya, form is emptiness, and it is through the cessation of emptiness that one attains liberation—not by clinging to the emptiness of form. Feeling, perception, mental formations, and consciousness are likewise.”

「憍陳如！色是無我，因滅是色獲得解脫真我之色；受、想、行、識亦復如是。

> Kaundinya! Form is not-self. By extinguishing attachment to form, one attains liberation—the true self of form. Likewise, so too with feeling, perception, mental formations, and consciousness.

「憍陳如！色是不淨，因滅是色獲得解脫清淨之色；受、想、行、識亦復如是。

> Kaundinya: The body is impure. By extinguishing attachment to the body, one attains liberation and purity of form. The same is true of feelings, perceptions, mental formations, and consciousness.

「憍陳如！色是生、老、病、死之相，因滅是色獲得解脫非生、老、病、死相之色；受、想、行、識亦復如是。

> "Kaundinya, physical form is characterized by birth, aging, sickness, and death. But by letting go of form, one attains liberation—a state beyond these characteristics. The same applies to feeling, perception, mental formations, and consciousness."

「憍陳如！色是無明因，因滅是色獲得解脫非無明因色；受、想、行、識亦復如是。

> Kaundinya, form originates from ignorance. When the cause ceases, form achieves liberation — and this liberation is not conditioned by ignorance. So it is with feeling, perception, mental formations, and consciousness.

「憍陳如！乃至色是生因，因滅是色獲得解脫非生因色；受、想、行、識亦復如是。

> Kaundinya! Form arises from causes, and when these causes cease, form attains liberation—it is no longer bound by the causes that gave rise to it. The same is true of feeling, perception, mental formations, and consciousness.

「憍陳如！色者即是四顛倒因，因滅倒色獲得解脫非四倒因色；受、想、行、識亦復如是。

> "Kaundinya, form is the cause of the four inversions. When the cause ceases, one attains liberation through form that is no longer a cause of the four inversions. Feelings, perceptions, mental formations, and consciousness are likewise."

「憍陳如！色是無量惡法之因——所謂男女等身、食愛、欲愛、貪、瞋、嫉妬、惡心、慳心、摶食、識食、思食、觸食、卵生、胎生、濕生、化生、五欲、五蓋，如是等法皆因於色——因滅色故獲得解脫無如是等無量惡色；受、想、行、識亦復如是。

> "Kaundinya, form is the root of countless unwholesome qualities—such as the male and female body, craving for food, craving for sensual pleasures, greed, anger, jealousy, ill will, miserly thoughts, the food of substance, the food of contact, the food of intention, the food of consciousness, birth from eggs, birth from a womb, birth from moisture, birth by transformation, the five objects of desire, and the five hindrances. All these and many more arise because of form; but when form ceases, one attains liberation, free from these countless unwholesome forms. The same is true for feeling, perception, mental formations, and consciousness."

「憍陳如！色即是縛，因滅縛色獲得解脫無縛之色；受、想、行、識亦復如是。

> "Kaundinya, form itself is bondage. By putting an end to the bondage of form, one attains liberation—a form free from bondage. The same is true of feeling, perception, mental formations, and consciousness."

「憍陳如！色即是流，因滅流色獲得解脫非流之色；受、想、行、識亦復如是。

> "Kaundinya, form is flowing. By extinguishing the flow of form, one attains liberation from the flow of form. Feeling, perception, mental formations, and consciousness are also the same."

「憍陳如！色非歸依，因滅是色獲得解脫歸依之色；受、想、行、識亦復如是。

> Kaundinya! Form is not a refuge. It is when form has ceased that one attains liberation from the refuge of form. Feeling, perception, mental formations, and consciousness are the same.

「憍陳如！色是瘡疣，因滅是色獲得解脫無瘡疣色；受、想、行、識亦復如是。

> "Kaundinya, form is an open sore. By extinguishing form, one attains liberation—a state without the sore of form. The same holds true for feeling, perception, mental formations, and consciousness."

「憍陳如！色非寂靜，因滅是色獲得涅槃寂靜之色；受、想、行、識亦復如是。

> Kaundinya, form is not still peace. It is only by extinguishing form that one attains the still peace of Nirvana. Feeling, perception, volition, and consciousness are likewise.

「憍陳如！若有人能如是知者，是名沙門、名婆羅門，具足沙門、婆羅門法。

> Kaundinya, those who understand in this way are truly called ascetics and Brahmins, for they fully embody the principles of the ascetic and Brahmin paths.

「憍陳如！若離佛法，無有沙門、無婆羅門，亦無沙門、婆羅門法。一切外道虛假詐稱都無實行，雖復作相言有是二，實無是處。何以故？若無沙門、婆羅門法，云何而言有沙門、婆羅門？我常於此大眾之中作師子吼，汝等亦當在大眾中作師子吼。」

> "Kaundinya, apart from the Buddha's teachings, there are no true ascetics or Brahmins, nor any true teachings of ascetics or Brahmins. All other paths are false and deceptive, lacking genuine practice. Though they may pretend and claim to possess these two things, in truth they do not. Why? Without the true teachings of ascetics and Brahmins, how can one speak of there being ascetics and Brahmins? I constantly roar like a lion among this assembly, and you too should roar like a lion among the assembly."

爾時，外道有無量人聞是語已，心生瞋惡：「瞿曇今說我等眾中無有沙門及婆羅門，亦無沙門、婆羅門法。我當云何廣設方便，語瞿曇言：『我等眾中亦有沙門、有沙門法，有婆羅門、有婆羅門法。』」

> At that time, countless followers of other paths heard these words and became angry, thinking: "Gautama has now declared that among all of us, there are no true ascetics or Brahmins, nor any genuine teachings of ascetics or Brahmins. How can we find a way to argue with him: 'Among us, there are indeed ascetics and their teachings, Brahmins and their teachings.'"

時彼眾中有一梵志唱如是言：「諸仁者！瞿曇之言如狂無異，何可撿校？世間狂人或歌、或舞、或哭、或笑、或罵、或讚，於怨親所不能分別。沙門瞿曇亦復如是，或說我生淨飯王家、或言不生，或說生已行至七步、或說不行，或說從小習學世事、或說我是一切智人，或時處宮受樂生子、或時厭患、呵責、惡賤，或時親修苦行六年、或時呵責外道苦行，或言從彼欝頭藍弗、阿羅邏等稟承未聞、或時說其無所知曉，或時說言菩提樹下得阿耨多羅三藐三菩提、或時說言我不至樹無所剋獲，或時說言我今此身即是涅槃、或言身滅乃是涅槃。瞿曇所說如狂無異，何故以此而愁憒耶？」

> At that time, a certain Brahmin in the assembly declared: "Good people! Gautama's words are no different from those of a madman—how can they be taken seriously? In the world, insane people sometimes sing, sometimes dance, sometimes cry, sometimes laugh, sometimes scold, sometimes praise, and are unable to distinguish friend from foe. The monk Gautama is just like that: sometimes he says he was born in the house of King Śuddhodana, sometimes not; sometimes he says he took seven steps after birth, sometimes not; sometimes he says he studied worldly affairs from childhood, sometimes he says he is all-knowing; sometimes he dwells in the palace enjoying pleasures and begetting a son, sometimes he is weary of it all, rebuking and loathing it; sometimes he personally undertakes six years of ascetic practice, sometimes he rebukes the ascetic practices of heretics; sometimes he says he received teachings never heard before from Udraka Rāmaputra and Ārāḍa Kālāma, sometimes he says he knows nothing; sometimes he says he attained supreme, perfect enlightenment under the Bodhi tree, sometimes he says he never went to the tree and achieved nothing; sometimes he says his present body is itself nirvāṇa, sometimes he says the extinction of the body is nirvāṇa. Gautama’s words are no different from a madman’s words—why then should this cause grief and bewilderment?"

諸婆羅門即便答言：「大士！我等今者何得不愁？沙門瞿曇先出家已，說無常、苦、空、無我、不淨，我諸弟子聞生恐怖：『云何眾生無常、苦、空、無我、不淨？』不受其語。今者，瞿曇復來至此娑羅林中，為諸大眾說有常、樂、我、淨之法。我諸弟子聞是語已，悉捨我去，受瞿曇語。以是因緣，生大愁苦。」

> The Brahmins replied, "Great one, how could we not be sorrowful? Earlier, the ascetic Gautama left home and taught about impermanence, suffering, emptiness, selflessness, and impurity. When our disciples heard this, they became terrified, asking, 'How can living beings be impermanent, suffering, empty, selfless, and impure?' They rejected his words. But now, Gautama has come again to this Sala forest and is teaching the assembly about permanence, bliss, self, and purity. When our disciples heard this, they all abandoned us and accepted Gautama’s teaching. For this reason, we are deeply grieved."

爾時，復有一婆羅門作如是言：「諸仁者！諦聽諦聽。瞿曇沙門名修慈悲，是言虛妄，非真實也。若有慈悲，云何教我諸弟子等自受其法？慈悲果者，隨順他意。今違我願，云何言有？若有說言沙門瞿曇不為世間八法所染，是亦虛妄。若言瞿曇少欲知足，今者云何奪我等利？若言種姓是上族者，是亦虛妄。何以故？從昔已來不見不聞大師子王殘害小鼠。若使瞿曇是上種姓，如何今者惱亂我等？若言瞿曇具大勢力，是亦虛妄。何以故？從昔已來亦不見聞金翅鳥王與烏共諍。若言力大，復以何事與我共鬪？若言瞿曇具他心智，是亦虛妄。何以故？若具此智，以何因緣不知我心？諸仁者！我昔曾從先舊智人聞說是事：『過百年已，世間當有一妖幻出。』即是瞿曇。如是妖惑今於此處娑羅林中將滅不久，汝等今者不應愁惱。」

> Then one Brahmin stepped forward and declared, "Listen carefully, all of you. This ascetic Gautama claims to practice compassion – this is a lie, not the truth. If he truly had compassion, why would he instruct his disciples to claim our offerings? The fruit of compassion is to act in accordance with others' wishes. But now he defies our will – how can he be said to have compassion? If anyone says that the ascetic Gautama is not tainted by the eight worldly concerns, that too is false. If they say he is content with little, then why is he taking away our livelihood? If they claim he comes from a noble lineage, that is also false. Why? Since ancient times, no one has ever seen a great lion king harm a tiny mouse. If Gautama truly were of noble birth, how could he now trouble us so? If they say Gautama possesses great power, that is also false. Why? Since ancient times, no one has ever seen a king of golden-winged birds quarrel with a crow. If he were truly powerful, why would he contend with us? If they say Gautama knows the minds of others, that is false as well. Why? If he possessed that ability, why wouldn't he know my thoughts? Listen, my friends. I once heard from wise elders of old say: 'After a hundred years, a great sorcerer will appear in the world.' That sorcerer is none other than Gautama. This deceptive illusion will soon disappear from the sal forest here. So do not be distressed."

爾時，復有一尼犍子答言：「仁者！我今愁苦，不為自身弟子供養，但為世間癡闇無眼，不識福田及非福田，棄捨先舊智婆羅門，供養年少，以為愁耳。瞿曇沙門大知呪術，因呪術力能令一身作無量身、令無量身還作一身，或以自身作男女像、牛、羊、象、馬。我力能滅如是呪術。瞿曇沙門呪術既滅，汝等當還多得供養，受於安樂。」

> At that time, another Jain replied, "Good sir, my sadness now is not because my own disciples offer me gifts. Rather, I am saddened that the world is blind and ignorant, unable to distinguish a true field of merit from a false one. They have abandoned the wise Brahmins of old and now make offerings to the young. Gautama the ascetic possesses great magical powers. With these powers, he can turn one body into countless bodies, or countless bodies back into one. He can even transform himself into a man, a woman, a cow, a sheep, an elephant, or a horse. But I have the power to destroy his magic. Once his magic is destroyed, you will receive offerings abundantly once more, and live in peace and happiness."

爾時，復有一婆羅門作如是言：「諸仁者！瞿曇沙門成就具足無量功德，是故汝等不應與諍。」

> At that time, another Brahmin spoke up, saying: "Good people! The ascetic Gautama possesses countless virtues and perfect qualities. Therefore, you should not dispute with him."

大眾答言：「癡人！云何說言沙門瞿曇具大功德？其生七日母便命終，是可得名福德相耶？」

> The crowd replied, "You fool! How can you say the monk Gautama possesses great merit? His mother died just seven days after he was born—how can that be called a sign of virtue and blessing?"

婆羅門言：「罵時不瞋、打時不報，當知即是大福德相。其身具足三十二相、八十種好、無量神通，是故當知是福德相。心無憍慢，先意問訊，言語柔軟，初無麁獷，年志俱盛，心不卒暴。王國多財無所愛戀，捨之出家如棄涕唾。是故，我說沙門瞿曇成就具足無量功德。」

> The Brahmin said: "When cursed, he does not get angry; when struck, he does not retaliate. You should know that this is a sign of great fortune. His body is fully endowed with the thirty-two marks and eighty excellent features, and possesses boundless spiritual powers. Therefore, recognize this as a sign of merit. His mind has no arrogance or pride; he takes the initiative to offer greetings. His speech is gentle and kind, never harsh or rough. Though in the prime of life and vigor, his heart is not reckless or impulsive. He does not cling to the wealth of his kingdom, but leaves it behind like one spits out phlegm or wipes away tears. For these reasons, I declare that the ascetic Gautama fully possesses and embodies infinite virtues."

大眾答言：「善哉，仁者！瞿曇沙門實如所說，成就無量神通變化，我不與彼捔試是事。瞿曇沙門受性柔軟，不堪苦行，生長深宮，不綜外事，唯可軟語，不知伎藝、書籍、論議。請共詳辯正法之要，彼若勝我，我當給事；我若勝彼，彼當事我。」

> Everyone replied, "Excellent, good sir! The ascetic Gautama truly possesses the boundless supernatural powers and transformations you describe—I wouldn't dare to compete with him in those matters. But the ascetic Gautama is gentle by nature, unsuited to harsh practices; raised deep within the palace, he has no experience in worldly affairs. He only responds to gentle words and knows nothing of skills, scriptures, or debate. Let's challenge him to a discussion on the essence of true teaching. If he bests me, I'll serve him; if I best him, he'll serve me."

爾時，多有無量外道和合共往摩伽陀王阿闍世所。王見便問：「諸仁者！汝等各各修習聖道，是出家人，捨離財貨及在家事。我國人民皆共供養，敬心瞻視，無相犯觸。何故和合而來至此？諸仁者！汝等各受異法、異戒，出家不同，亦復各各自隨戒法出家修道。何因緣故今者一心而共和合，猶如葉落，旋風所吹，聚在一處？說何因緣而來至此？我常擁護出家之人，乃至不惜身之與命。」

> At that time, a great many non-Buddhist ascetics gathered together and went to King Ajatashatru of Magadha. When the king saw them, he asked: "Venerable ones! Each of you cultivates the noble path, having left home to become a renunciant, abandoning wealth and worldly affairs. The people of my kingdom all support you, revere and respect you, and treat you with deference. So why have you gathered together and come to me? Venerable ones, you each follow different teachings and observe different precepts; you have left home in different ways, each keeping to your own rules of conduct as you practice the path. Why then are you now of one mind, united like leaves blown together by a whirlwind into a single heap? For what reason have you come here? I have always protected those who have left home, even to the point of risking my own life."

爾時，一切諸外道眾咸作是言：「大王諦聽，大王今者是大法橋、是大法礪、是大法秤，即是一切功德之器、一切功德真實之性、正法道路，即是種子之良田也、一切國土之根本也、一切國土之明鏡也、一切諸天之形像也、一切國人之父母也。大王！一切世間功德寶藏即是王身。何以故名功德藏？王斷國事不擇怨親，其心平等如地、水、火、風，是故名王為功德藏。大王！現在眾生雖復壽短，王之功德如昔長壽安樂時，王亦如頂生、善見、忍辱、那睺沙王、耶耶帝王、尸毘王、一叉鳩王。如是等王具足善法，大王今者亦復如是。大王！以王因緣，國土安樂，人民熾盛。是故，一切出家之人慕樂此國，持戒精勤，修習正道。大王！我經中說：『若出家人隨所住國持戒精進，勤修正道，其王亦有修善之分。』大王！一切盜賊王已整理，出家之人都無畏懼。今者唯有一大惡人瞿曇沙門，王未撿校，我等甚畏。其人自恃豪族種姓，身色具足，又因過去布施之報多得供養，恃此眾事生大憍慢，或因呪術而生憍慢。以是因緣不能苦行，受畜細軟、衣服、臥具。是故，一切世間惡人為利養故往集其所而為眷屬，不能苦行。呪術力故，調伏迦葉及舍利弗、目犍連等。今復來至我所住處娑羅林中，宣說是身常、樂、我、淨，誘我弟子。大王！瞿曇先說無常、無樂、無我、無淨，我能忍之；今乃宣說常、樂、我、淨，我實不忍。惟願大王聽我與彼瞿曇論議。」

> At that time, all the other religious teachers spoke together, saying: "Great King, please listen carefully. You are a great bridge of Dharma, a great whetstone of Dharma, a great scale of Dharma; you are the vessel of all virtue, the true essence of all virtue, the path of righteous Dharma; you are the fertile field for seeds, the very foundation of the nation, the clear mirror of the land, the living image of the gods, and the father and mother of your people. Great King, the treasure trove of all worldly virtue is embodied in your person. Why is it called a treasure trove of virtue? Because when you judge the affairs of state, you do not favor kin nor hold grudges against enemies; your mind is as impartial as earth, water, fire, and wind. Therefore you are called a treasure trove of virtue. Great King, although the people of this age have but short lifespans, your virtue is as great as that of kings in the peaceful and prosperous days of old—like King Dading Sheng, King Shanjian, King Rennu, King Naoxiusha, King Yeye, King Shibi, King Yichajiu, and others. Those kings were fully endowed with good qualities, and you, Great King, are just like them. Great King, because of your rule, the land is peaceful, the people flourish. For this reason, all renunciants take delight in dwelling in this kingdom, upholding moral precepts with diligence and cultivating the right path. Great King, our scriptures say: 'If renunciants, in the land where they reside, are diligent in upholding precepts and earnestly cultivating the right path, then their king also shares in that merit.' Great King, you have already suppressed all thieves and robbers, so we renunciants have nothing to fear. But now there is one great evil man—the renunciant Gautama—whom you have not yet checked. We are deeply afraid of him. He relies on his noble birth, perfect appearance, and the abundant offerings he gains as a reward for past generosity. Puffed up with these, he grows arrogant. Perhaps he is even arrogant because of his magical powers. For these reasons, he does not practice asceticism but accepts fine clothing and comfortable bedding. Consequently, all evil people in the world, for the sake of material gain, flock to him and become his followers. They do not practice austerity either. By his magic, he has subdued Kashyapa, Shariputra, and Maudgalyayana. And now he has come to the Sala grove where we live, proclaiming that this body is permanent, blissful, self, and pure. He is seducing our disciples! Great King, when Gautama formerly taught impermanence, suffering, no-self, and impurity, we could tolerate that. But now he preaches permanence, bliss, self, and purity—this I cannot endure. We only ask, Great King, that you allow us to debate this Gautama."

王即答言：「諸大士！汝等今者為誰教導而令其心狂亂不定，如水濤波、旋火之輪、猨猴擲樹？是事可恥，智人若聞即生憐愍、愚人聞之即生嗤笑。汝等所說，非出家相。汝若病風黃、水患者，吾悉有藥能療治之；如其鬼病，家兄耆婆善能去之。汝等今者欲以手爪鉋須彌山、欲以口齒齚齧金剛。諸大士！譬如愚人見師子王飢時睡眠而欲悟之、如人以指置毒蛇口、如欲以手觸灰覆火，汝等今者亦復如是。

> The king then replied, "Noble ones! Who has instructed you, causing your minds to be so confused and unstable—like surging waves, a whirling firebrand, or a monkey leaping among trees? This is shameful. Wise people who hear it will feel compassion, while fools will laugh at you. What you have said does not befit those who have left home. If you are afflicted by wind, jaundice, or water disorders, I have medicines that can cure you. If a ghost possesses you, my elder brother Jīvaka has the skill to expel it. Now, you wish to claw apart Mount Sumeru with your fingernails and to gnash the diamond with your teeth. Noble ones! It is like a fool trying to awaken a sleeping lion; like someone placing a finger into a venomous snake's mouth; like someone trying to touch ash that covers a fire. What you are doing is just the same."

「善男子！譬如野狐作師子吼、猶如蚊子共金翅鳥捔行遲疾、如兔渡海欲盡其底，汝等今者亦復如是。汝若夢見勝瞿曇者，是夢狂惑，未足可信。諸大士！汝等今者興建是意，猶如飛蛾投大火聚。汝隨我語，不須更說。汝雖讚我平等如秤，勿令外人復聞此語。」

> "Good man! For example, a wild fox pretending to roar like a lion, a mosquito racing against a golden-winged roc, or a rabbit trying to cross the ocean to touch its bottom—this is exactly what you are like now. If you dream of surpassing Gautama, that dream is mere delusion and not worth believing. Great sages! The intention you are now fostering is like a moth flying into a blazing fire. Follow my words; there is no need to say more. Even though you praise me as being as impartial as a balance, do not let outsiders hear these words again."

爾時，外道復作是言：「大王！瞿曇沙門所作幻術到汝邊耶？乃令大王心疑，不信是等聖人。大王！不應輕蔑如是大士。大王！是月增減、大海醎味、摩羅延山，如是等事誰之所作？豈非我等婆羅門耶？大王！不聞阿竭多仙十二年中恒河之水停耳中耶？大王！不聞瞿曇仙人大現神通，十二年中變作釋身，并令釋身作羝羊形、作千女根在釋身耶？大王！不聞耆㝹仙人一日之中飲四海水令大地乾耶？大王！不聞婆藪仙人為自在天作三眼耶？大王！不聞羅邏仙人變迦富羅城作𪉖他本作國土耶？大王！婆羅門中有如是等大力諸仙現可撿校，大王！云何見輕蔑耶？」

> Then the non-Buddhist ascetic said to the king: "Great King! Has the illusion of that Gautama Shramana reached you, that you now doubt and refuse to believe in these noble sages? Great King! You should not disparage such great beings. Great King! The waxing and waning of the moon, the saltiness of the ocean, the Malaya mountains—who created these things? Is it not we Brahmins? Great King! Have you not heard how the sage Agastya kept the waters of the Ganges in his ear for twelve years? Great King! Have you not heard how the sage Gautama displayed great miraculous powers, transforming himself into Shakra’s form for twelve years, and also made Shakra take the shape of a ram and gave him a thousand female organs? Great King! Have you not heard how the sage Jaimini drank the waters of the four oceans in a single day, drying up the earth? Great King! Have you not heard how the sage Vashishtha created a third eye for the god Ishana? Great King! Have you not heard how the sage Raurava turned the city of Kapila into an inedible salt waste? Great King! Among Brahmins there are great sages with such immense powers, as can now be verified. Great King! How can you treat them with contempt?"

王言：「諸仁者！若不見信故欲為者，如來正覺今者近在娑羅林中，汝等可往隨意問難。如來亦當為汝分別，稱汝意答。」

> The king said, "Good people! If you still do not believe me and wish to do as you said, the Tathagata, the perfectly enlightened one, is now nearby in the Shala forest. You may go there and ask whatever questions you like. The Tathagata will explain everything for you and answer according to your needs."

爾時，阿闍世王與諸外道徒眾眷屬往至佛所，頭面作禮，右遶三匝。修敬已畢，却住一面，白佛言：「世尊！是諸外道欲隨意問難，唯願如來隨意答之。」

> At that time, King Ajatashatru, accompanied by a group of ascetics and their followers, came to where the Buddha was. He bowed his head to the ground in reverence, circled the Buddha three times to his right, and after completing these formalities, stood to one side. He then said to the Buddha, "World-Honored One, these ascetics would like to ask you some questions at their convenience. I only ask that the Tathagata answer them as you see fit."

佛言：「大王！且止，我自知時。」

> The Buddha said, "Great King, stop there. I know the right time myself."

爾時，眾中有婆羅門名闍提首那，作如是言：「瞿曇！汝說涅槃是常法耶？」

> At that time, there was a Brahmin in the assembly named Jātipūjya who spoke thus: "Gotama, do you say that Nirvana is an eternal state?"

「如是，如是。大婆羅門！」

> Yes, indeed, great brahmin.

婆羅門言：「瞿曇若說涅槃常者，是義不然。何以故？世間之法從子生果，相續不斷，如從埿出瓶、從縷得衣。瞿曇常說：『修無常想獲得涅槃。』因是無常，果云何常？瞿曇又說：『解脫欲貪即是涅槃，解脫色貪及無色貪即是涅槃，滅無明等一切煩惱即是涅槃。』從欲乃至無明煩惱皆是無常，因是無常，所得涅槃亦應無常。瞿曇又說：『從因故生天、從因故墮地獄、從因得解脫，是故諸法皆從因生。』若從因故得解脫者，云何言常？瞿曇亦說：『色從緣生，故名無常；受、想、行、識亦復如是。』如是解脫若是色者，當知無常；受、想、行、識亦復如是。若離五陰有解脫者，當知解脫即是虛空。若是虛空，不得說言從因緣生。何以故？是常、是一，遍一切處。瞿曇亦說：『從因生者，即是苦也。』若是苦者，云何復說解脫是樂？瞿曇又說：『無常即苦，苦即無我。』若是無常、苦、無我者，即是不淨。一切從因所生諸法皆無常、苦、無我、不淨，云何復說涅槃即是常、樂、我、淨？若瞿曇說亦常、無常，亦苦、亦樂，亦我、無我，亦淨、不淨，如是豈非是二語耶？我亦曾從先舊智人聞說是語：『佛若出世，言則無二。』瞿曇今者說於二語，復言佛即我身是也，是義云何？」

> The Brahmin said: "Gotama, if you claim that nirvana is eternal, this reasoning is incorrect. Why? Because in the world, from a seed a fruit arises continuously, just as clay produces a pot and thread yields cloth. You constantly teach: 'By cultivating the perception of impermanence, one attains nirvana.' Since the cause is impermanent, how can the result be eternal? You also teach: 'Freeing oneself from desire and attachment is nirvana; freeing oneself from attachment to form and the formless realms is nirvana; extinguishing ignorance and all afflictions is nirvana.' From desire to ignorance, all afflictions are impermanent. Since the cause is impermanent, the nirvana that arises from it should also be impermanent. You further teach: 'Due to causes, one is reborn in heaven; due to causes, one falls into hell; due to causes, one attains liberation. Therefore, all phenomena arise from causes.' If liberation arises from causes, how can it be called eternal? You also teach: 'Form arises from conditions, hence it is called impermanent; feeling, perception, mental formations, and consciousness are likewise.' If this liberation is form, then know it is impermanent; similarly for feeling, perception, mental formations, and consciousness. If there is a liberation apart from the five aggregates, then know that liberation is merely empty space. If it is empty space, then it cannot be said to arise from causes and conditions. Why? Because it is eternal, one, and pervasive everywhere. You also teach: 'What arises from causes is suffering.' If it is suffering, how can you claim liberation is bliss? You further teach: 'The impermanent is suffering; suffering is without a self.' If it is impermanent, suffering, and without a self, then it is also impure. All phenomena arising from causes are impermanent, suffering, selfless, and impure—how then can you claim that nirvana is eternal, blissful, self, and pure? If you, Gotama, say it is both eternal and impermanent, both suffering and bliss, both self and selfless, both pure and impure, is this not dual speech? I have heard from wise elders of old: 'If a Buddha appears in the world, his words are not dual.' Now you speak dual words, yet claim to be the Buddha. What does this mean?"

佛言：「婆羅門！如汝所說，我今問汝，隨汝意答。」

> The Buddha said, "Brahmin, I will now ask you a question. Please answer as you wish."

婆羅門言：「善哉，瞿曇！」

> The Brahmin said, "Excellent, Gotama!"

佛言：「婆羅門！汝性常耶？是無常乎？」

> The Buddha said, "Brahmin, is your nature permanent or impermanent?"

婆羅門言：「我性是常。」

> The Brahmin said, "My nature is eternal."

「婆羅門！是性能作一切內外法之因耶？」

> "O Brahmin, can this nature be the cause of all internal and external phenomena?"

「如是。瞿曇！」

> "Yes, Gautama."

佛言：「婆羅門！云何作因？」

> The Buddha said, "Brahmin, what is the cause of actions?"

「瞿曇！從性生大，從大生慢，從慢生十六法，所謂地、水、火、風、空五知根，眼、耳、鼻、舌、身五業根，手、脚、口、聲、男女二根、心平等根。是十六法從五法生：色、聲、香、味、觸。是二十一法根本有三：一者、染，二者、麁，三者、黑。染者，名愛；麁者，名瞋；黑，名無明。瞿曇！是二十四法皆因性生。」

> "Gotama! From primal nature arises the Great Principle. From the Great Principle arises the sense of self. From the sense of self arise sixteen elements: the five cognitive faculties—earth, water, fire, wind, and space; the five organs of action—eyes, ears, nose, tongue, and body; the two organs of reproduction—male and female; the organs of hand, foot, mouth, voice, and the mind as the organ of equanimity. These sixteen elements come from five qualities: form, sound, smell, taste, and touch. And these twenty-one principles have three roots: passion, coarseness, and ignorance. Passion is attachment; coarseness is aversion; ignorance is delusion. Gotama, these twenty-four principles all arise from primal nature."

「婆羅門！是大等法，常、無常耶？」

> "Brahmin, are these great practices permanent or impermanent?"

「瞿曇！我法性常，大等諸法悉是無常。」

> "Gotama! My teaching says that the nature of reality is permanent, while all phenomena—such as the great elements—are impermanent."

「婆羅門！如汝法中因常、果無常，然我法中因雖無常、果是常者，有何等過？婆羅門！汝等法中有二因不？」

> "Brahmin, in your tradition you say the cause is eternal but the result is impermanent. Yet in my tradition, while the cause is impermanent, the result is eternal. What fault is there in this? Brahmin, does your tradition recognize two types of causes?"

答言：「有。」

> He replied, "Yes."

佛言：「云何為二？」

> The Buddha said: "What are the two?"

婆羅門言：「一者、生因，二者、了因。」

> "You have two types of causes," said the Brahmin, "One is the source that brings something into being, and the other is the cause that makes it clear or known."

佛言：「云何生因？云何了因？」

> The Buddha said, "What is the cause of arising? What is the cause of discernment?"

婆羅門言：「生因者，如埿出瓶；了因者，如燈照物。」

> The Brahmin said: "A producing cause is like clay being shaped into a pot; a revealing cause is like a lamp illuminating an object."

佛言：「是二種因，因性是一。若是一者，可令生因作於了因、可令了因作生因不？」

> The Buddha said: "These two types of causes—their cause-nature is one. If they are one, can the producing cause serve as the illuminating cause, and can the illuminating cause serve as the producing cause?"

「不也。瞿曇！」

> "No, Gautama."

佛言：「若使生因不作了因、了因不作生因，可得說言是因相不？」

> The Buddha said: "If the cause of arising does not serve as the cause of realization, and the cause of realization does not serve as the cause of arising, could it still be said that these are causes in terms of their characteristics?"

婆羅門言：「雖不相作，故有因相。」

> The Brahmin said, "Even though they don’t directly create one another, there is still a cause-and-effect relationship."

「婆羅門！了因所了即同了不？」

> "Brahmin, is that which is known through a cause the same as the act of knowing itself?"

「不也。瞿曇！」

> "No, Gautama."

佛言：「我法雖從無常獲得涅槃而非無常。婆羅門！從了因得故，常、樂、我、淨；從生因得故，無常、無樂、無我、無淨。是故，如來所說有二。如是二語無有二也，是故如來名無二語。如汝所說：『曾從先舊智人邊聞：「佛出於世無有二語。」』是言善哉，一切十方三世諸佛所說無差，是故說言佛無二語。云何無差？有同說有、無同說無，故名一義。婆羅門！如來世尊雖名二語，為了一語故。云何二語了於一語？如眼、色二語生識一語；乃至意、法亦復如是。」

> The Buddha said: "Although my teaching leads from impermanence to Nirvana, Nirvana itself is not impermanent. Brahmin, it is attained through the type of understanding that makes clear what is already present, revealing its everlasting, blissful, selfless and pure nature. It is not attained through generating something new, which would be impermanent, suffering, without self, and impure. Thus, the Tathagata speaks in two ways. But these two ways are not two separate truths; therefore the Tathagata is called the one of non-dual speech. As you said, 'I have heard from wise elders of old that when a Buddha appears in the world, his speech is non-dual.' That is well said. The teachings of all Buddhas throughout the ten directions and three times are without difference, which is why it is said the Buddha has non-dual speech. How are they without difference? When there is existence, they say it exists; when there is non-existence, they say it does not exist. This is called one meaning. Brahmin, although the Tathagata, the World-Honored One, speaks in two ways, it is for the sake of conveying a single meaning. How do two words convey one meaning? For instance, the words 'eye' and 'form' give rise to the single word 'consciousness'; the same is true for the mind and mental objects."

婆羅門言：「瞿曇！善能分別如是語義，我今未解所出二語了於一語。」

> The Brahmin said, "Gotama, you explain these meanings well, but I still do not understand how two statements can be resolved into one."

爾時，世尊即為宣說四真諦法：「婆羅門！言苦諦者，亦二、亦一；乃至道諦，亦二、亦一。」

> Then the World-Honored One explained the Four Noble Truths to him: "Brahmin, what is called the Truth of Suffering can be understood as two aspects or one. The same applies to the Truth of the Path—it can be seen as two aspects or one."

婆羅門言：「世尊！我已知已。」

> "The Brahmin said: 'World-Honored One, I have understood.'"

佛言：「善男子！云何知已？」

> The Buddha said, "Good man, how do you know it?"

婆羅門言：「世尊！苦諦，一切凡夫二，是聖人一；乃至道諦亦復如是。」

> The Brahmin said: "World-Honored One, the truth of suffering — ordinary people see it as dualistic, while the noble ones see it as non-dual. The same applies to all the other truths, up to the truth of the path."

佛言：「善哉，已解。」

> The Buddha said, "Excellent. You already understand."

婆羅門言：「世尊！我今聞法已得正見，今當歸依佛、法、僧寶，唯願大慈聽我出家。」

> The Brahmin said: "World-Honored One! I have just heard the Dharma and attained right view. Now I wish to take refuge in the Buddha, the Dharma, and the Sangha. Please, out of great compassion, allow me to become a monk."

爾時，世尊告憍陳如：「汝當為是闍提首那剃除鬚髮，聽其出家。」

> At that time, the World-Honored One said to Kaundinya: "You should shave the head and beard of this Jati-sena and allow him to become a monk."

時憍陳如即受佛勅為其剃髮，即下手時有二種落：一者、鬢髮，二者、煩惱，即於坐處得阿羅漢果。

> At that time, Kaundinya followed the Buddha's instruction and shaved his head. As he began to cut, two things fell away: first, his hair, and second, his afflictions. Right there in his seat, he attained the state of an Arhat.

復有梵志姓婆私吒，復作是言：「瞿曇所說涅槃常耶？」

> Once more, a Brahmin of the Vasishtha clan spoke, saying: "Gotama, is the nirvana you speak of eternal?"

「如是。梵志！」

> "Yes, that is so, O Brahmin!"

婆私吒言：「瞿曇！將不說無煩惱為涅槃耶？」

> Vāsishtha said, "Gotama, would you say that 'nirvāṇa' means the absence of afflictions?"

「如是。梵志！」

> "Yes, that is so, O Brahmin!"

婆私吒言：「瞿曇！世間四種名之為無：一者、未出之法名之為無，如瓶未出埿時名為無瓶；二者、已滅之法名之為無，如瓶壞已名為無瓶；三者、異相互無名之為無，如牛中無馬、馬中無牛；四者、畢竟無故名之為無，如龜毛、兔角。瞿曇！若以除煩惱已名涅槃者，涅槃即無。若是無者，云何言有常、樂、我、淨？」

> Bashika said, "Gautama, in this world, we speak of 'nonexistence' in four ways: First, something that has not yet come into being is called nonexistent, like a pot which does not exist when the clay has not yet been shaped. Second, something that has ceased to be is called nonexistent, like a pot after it has been broken. Third, the absence of one thing's characteristics in another is called nonexistent, like there is no horse in a cow, or no cow in a horse. Fourth, something that is fundamentally impossible is called nonexistent, like a tortoise's hair or a rabbit's horns. Gautama, if removing afflictions is what you call Nirvana, then Nirvana is simply nonexistence. And if it is nonexistent, how can you say it is eternal, blissful, self, and pure?"

佛言：「善男子！如是涅槃非是先無同埿時瓶，亦非滅無同瓶壞無，亦非畢竟無如龜毛、兔角，同於異無。善男子！如汝所言，雖牛中無馬，不可說言牛亦是無；雖馬中無牛，亦不可說馬亦是無。涅槃亦爾，煩惱中無涅槃、涅槃中無煩惱，是故名為異相互無。」

> The Buddha said, "Good man! This nirvana is not like a jar that initially had no existence and then came into being when clay was shaped into it. Nor is it like a jar that becomes nonexistent after it is broken. It is not like the utter nonexistence of a turtle's hair or a rabbit's horn, which are simply nonexistent. Good man! As you have said, although there is no horse within a cow, you cannot claim that the cow itself is nothing. Similarly, although there is no cow within a horse, you cannot claim that the horse itself is nothing. Nirvana is likewise: within afflictions there is no nirvana, and within nirvana there are no afflictions. Therefore, it is said that they are mutually absent of each other's nature."

婆私吒言：「瞿曇！若以異無為涅槃者，夫異無者，無常、樂、我、淨。瞿曇！云何說言涅槃常、樂、我、淨？」

> "Vasistha said: 'Gotama, if nirvana is different from non-existence, then that which is different from non-existence is actually impermanent, unsatisfactory, not-self, and impure. Gotama, how can you say that nirvana is permanent, blissful, self, and pure?'"

佛言：「善男子！如汝所說是異無者，有三種無：牛馬悉是先無後有，是名先無；已有還無，是名壞無；異相無者，如汝所說。善男子！是三種無，涅槃中無，是故涅槃常、樂、我、淨。如世病人：一者、熱病，二者、風病，三者、冷病。是三種病，三藥能治：有熱病者，蘇能治之；有風病者，油能治之；有冷病者，蜜能治之。是三種藥能治如是三種惡病。善男子！風中無油、油中無風，乃至蜜中無冷、冷中無蜜，是故能治。一切眾生亦復如是，有三種病：一者、貪，二者、瞋，三者、癡。如是三病有三種藥：不淨觀者能為貪藥、慈心觀者能為瞋藥、觀因緣智能為癡藥。善男子！為除貪故，作非貪觀；為除瞋故，作非瞋觀；為除癡故，作非癡觀。三種病中無三種藥，三種藥中無三種病。善男子！三種病中無三藥故，無常、無我、無樂、無淨；三種藥中無三種病，是故得稱常、樂、我、淨。」

> The Buddha said: "Good man, regarding what you said about 'different kinds of absence'—there are three types of absence. The first is when something that did not exist later comes into being, like a cow or a horse; this is called 'prior absence.' The second is when something that existed later ceases to exist; this is called 'absence through destruction.' The third is the type of 'different absence' you described. Good man, Nirvana is free from all three of these absences. Therefore, Nirvana is eternal, blissful, self, and pure. Consider a sick person who may suffer from one of three illnesses: a heat-related illness, a wind-related illness, or a cold-related illness. Each of these three illnesses can be treated by a specific medicine: ghee can cure heat-related illness, oil can cure wind-related illness, and honey can cure cold-related illness. Each medicine treats a specific illness because wind does not contain oil, nor oil wind—and likewise, honey does not contain cold, nor cold honey. In the same way, all beings suffer from three afflictions: greed, anger, and ignorance. These three afflictions have three corresponding remedies: contemplation of impurity is the remedy for greed, contemplation of loving-kindness is the remedy for anger, and contemplation of dependent origination is the remedy for ignorance. Good man, to eliminate greed, practice contemplation that is not greedy; to eliminate anger, practice contemplation that is not angry; to eliminate ignorance, practice contemplation that is not ignorant. The three afflictions do not contain the three remedies, and the three remedies do not contain the three afflictions. Good man, because the three afflictions do not contain the three remedies, they are impermanent, without self, without bliss, and impure. But because the three remedies do not contain the three afflictions, they can be called eternal, blissful, self, and pure."

婆私吒言：「世尊！如來為我說常、無常，云何為常？云何無常？」

> Vasistha said, "World-Honored One! Please teach me about the eternal and the impermanent. What is eternal? What is impermanent?"

佛言：「善男子！色是無常，解脫色常；乃至識是無常，解脫識常。善男子！若有善男子、善女人能觀色乃至識是無常者，當知是人獲得常法。」

> The Buddha said: "Good man, form is impermanent, yet liberation from form is permanent. The same applies to perception, feeling, mental formations, and consciousness—they are impermanent, yet liberation from them is permanent. Good man, if a virtuous man or woman can see that form, perception, feeling, mental formations, and consciousness are all impermanent, you should know that such a person has attained the permanent truth."

婆私吒言：「世尊！我今已知常、無常法。」

> Vasistha said, "World-Honored One, I now understand the nature of the eternal and impermanent."

佛言：「善男子！汝云何知常、無常法？」

> The Buddha said, "Good man, how do you understand what is permanent and what is impermanent?"

婆私吒言：「世尊！我今知我色是無常，得解脫常；乃至識亦如是。」

> Vāśiṣṭha said, "World-Honored One! Now I understand that my form is impermanent and have attained release from permanence; the same applies to consciousness."

佛言：「善男子！汝今善哉，已報是身。」

> The Buddha said, "Good man! Well done. You have now repaid this physical body."

告憍陳如：「是婆私吒已證阿羅漢果，汝可施其三衣鉢器。」

> "Kauṇḍinya," he said, "Vāsiṣṭha has already realized the state of an Arhat. You may now provide him with the three robes and his alms bowl."

時憍陳如如佛所勅施其衣鉢。時婆私吒受衣鉢已，作如是言：「大德憍陳如！我今因是弊惡之身得善果報，唯願大德為我屈意至世尊所具宣我心。我既惡人，觸犯如來你瞿曇姓，唯願為我懺悔此罪。我亦不能久住毒身，今入涅槃。」

> At that time, Kao-ju-ju, following the Buddha's instruction, gave his robe and bowl. After accepting the robe and bowl, Pizhi said: "Venerable Kao-ju-ju, through this wretched body of mine, I have now gained a good outcome. I only ask that the Elder kindly go to the World-Honored One and fully convey my thoughts. I have been a wicked person, offending the Tathagata and your clan name, Gautama. I beg you to confess this sin on my behalf. I can no longer bear to remain in this poisonous body, so I will now enter Nirvana."

時憍陳如即往佛所作如是言：「世尊！婆私吒比丘生慚愧心，自言頑嚚，觸犯如來你瞿曇姓，不能久住是毒蛇身，今欲滅身，寄我懺悔。」

> At that time, Kaundinya went to the Buddha and said, "World-Honored One! The monk Vasistha feels deeply ashamed and says he was stubborn and ignorant when he offended the Tathagata by mentioning your name Gautama. He cannot bear to remain in this venomous snake-body any longer. Now he wishes to end his life and has entrusted his confession to me."

佛言：「憍陳如！婆私吒比丘已於過去無量佛所成就善根，今受我語，如法而住。如法住故，獲得正果。汝等應當供養其身。」

> "Kauṇḍinya," the Buddha said, "the monk Vasiṣṭha has already cultivated wholesome roots in the presence of countless Buddhas of the past. Now, having received my words, he abides by the Dharma. Because he abides in the Dharma, he has attained the true fruit. You should all make offerings to his body."

爾時，憍陳如從佛聞已，還其身所而設供養。時婆私吒於焚身時作種種神足。諸外道輩見是事已，高聲唱言：「是婆私吒已得瞿曇沙門呪術，是人不久復當勝彼瞿曇沙門。」

> At that time, having heard these words from the Buddha, Kaundinya returned to his place to make offerings. As Bhaspati performed the cremation, he displayed various miraculous powers. When the non-Buddhist practitioners saw this, they exclaimed loudly: "This Bhaspati has already attained Gautama the ascetic's spells and techniques. This person will soon surpass Gautama the ascetic again."

爾時，眾中復有梵志名曰先尼，復作是言：「瞿曇！有我耶？」如來默然。「瞿曇！無我耶？」如來默然。第二、第三亦如是問，佛皆默然。先尼言：「瞿曇！若一切眾生有我——遍一切處、是一、作者，瞿曇何故默然不答？」

> At that time, there was a Brahmin in the assembly named Seniya, who asked, "Gotama, is there a self?" The Tathagata remained silent. "Gotama, is there no self?" Again, the Tathagata remained silent. A second and third time he asked, and the Buddha was silent each time. Seniya said, "Gotama, if all beings have a self—one that is all-pervading, singular, and the agent of action—why does Gotama remain silent and not answer?"

佛言：「先尼！汝說是我遍一切處耶？」

> The Buddha said, "Shenni, are you saying that this 'self' (or soul) is everywhere and in everything?"

先尼答言：「瞿曇！不但我說，一切智人亦如是說。」

> Xianni replied: "Gotama, it is not only I who say this — all those who possess wisdom also teach the same."

佛言：「善男子！若我周遍一切處者，應當五道一時受報。若有五道一時受報，汝等梵志何因緣故不造眾惡為遮地獄、修諸善法為受天身？」

> The Buddha said, "Good man, if I were present everywhere, then retribution would happen simultaneously across all five realms of existence. If retribution occurs simultaneously across these five realms, then why do you Brahmins refrain from doing evil to avoid rebirth in hell, and cultivate good deeds to attain heavenly rebirth?"

先尼言：「瞿曇！我法中我則有二種：一、作身我，二者、常身我。為作身我修離惡法不入地獄，修諸善法生於天上。」

> Then Shrenika said: "Gotama, in my teaching, I speak of two kinds of self. First, there is the self connected to actions and the body — the self that, by turning away from wrong deeds, avoids rebirth in hell, and, by practicing good deeds, is reborn in heaven. Secondly, there is the eternal, unchanging self. It is for the sake of this acting self that one cultivates virtue and achieves higher rebirth."

佛言：「善男子！如汝說我遍一切處，如是我者若作身中當知無常。若作身無，云何言遍？」

> The Buddha said: "Good man! You claim that I am present everywhere. If such a 'self' exists within the body, know that it must be impermanent. If it is said to be beyond the body, then how can it be called 'everywhere'?"

「瞿曇！我所立我亦在作中、亦是常法。瞿曇！如人失火燒舍宅時，其主出去，不可說言：『舍宅被燒，主亦被燒。』我法亦爾，而此作身雖是無常，當無常時我則出去。是故，我我亦遍、亦常。」

> "Gotama! My concept of self operates yet remains permanent. Gotama! When a house catches fire and the owner escapes, no one says: 'Since the house is burning, the owner is also burning.' My teaching is the same: though this body lacks permanence, when it changes, my self escapes. Therefore, my self is both pervasive and eternal."

佛言：「善男子！如汝說我亦遍、亦常，是義不然。何以故？遍有二種：一者、常，二者、無常。復有二種：一、色，二、無色。是故，若言一切有者，亦常、亦無常，亦色、亦無色。若言舍主得出不名無常，是義不然。何以故？舍不名主、主不名舍，異燒、異出，故得如是。我則不爾，何以故？我即是色、色即是我，無色即我、我即無色。云何而言色無常時我則得出？善男子！汝意若謂一切眾生同一我者，如是即違世出世法。何以故？世間法名父母、子女。若我是一，父即是子、子即是父，母即是女、女即是母，怨即是親、親即是怨，此即是彼、彼即是此。是故，若說一切眾生同一我者，是即違背世出世法。」

> The Buddha said: "Good man, you claim that the self is both all-pervasive and eternal. This is not correct. Why? Because 'pervasive' can be understood in two ways: one is eternal, the other is impermanent. Furthermore, there are two kinds of pervasion: one is form, the other is formless. Therefore, if you say that everything exists, it would be both eternal and impermanent, both form and formless. You also say that when a dwelling's owner leaves, the dwelling is not called impermanent. This too is not correct. Why? Because a dwelling is not its owner, and an owner is not a dwelling. They burn separately and leave separately, so they can be described as such. But the self is not like this. Why? Because the self is form, and form is the self; the formless is the self, and the self is the formless. How can you say that when form is impermanent, the self can leave? Good man, if you believe that all living beings share one identical self, this contradicts both worldly and transcendent truths. Why? Because in worldly terms, we have concepts like father, mother, and children. If the self were one, then father would be son, son would be father; mother would be daughter, daughter would be mother; enemy would be loved one, loved one would be enemy; this would be that, that would be this. Therefore, if you claim that all living beings share one self, this goes against both worldly and transcendent truths."

先尼言：「我亦不說一切眾生同於一我，乃說一人各有一我。」

> Xianni said, “I do not claim that all beings share a single self, but rather that each individual person has their own separate self.”

佛言：「善男子！若言一人各有一我，是為多我，是義不然。何以故？如汝先說，我遍一切。若遍一切，一切眾生業根應同。天得見時，佛得亦見；天得作時，佛得亦作；天得聞時，佛得亦聞；一切諸法皆亦如是。若天得見非佛得見者，不應說我遍一切處；若不遍者，是即無常。」

> The Buddha said: "Good man! If you claim that each person has a separate self, leading to many selves, this reasoning is incorrect. Why? As you previously stated, the self pervades everywhere. If it pervades everywhere, then the actions and results of all beings should be the same. When a god can see, a buddha should also be able to see; when a god can act, a buddha should also be able to act; when a god can hear, a buddha should also be able to hear—and the same would apply to all phenomena. If a god can see but a buddha cannot, then it cannot be said that the self pervades everywhere. And if it does not pervade everywhere, then it is impermanent."

先尼言：「瞿曇！一切眾生我遍一切，法與非法不遍一切。以是義故，佛得作異、天得作異。是故，瞿曇不應說言：『佛得見時，天得應見；佛得聞時，天得應聞。』」

> Xianni said: "Gautama, I exist within all beings, but righteousness and unrighteousness do not permeate everything. For this reason, Buddha-nature realizes enlightenment differently from the heavens. Therefore, Gautama, you should not say: 'When the Buddha attains enlightenment, the heavens should also attain it; when the Buddha hears the truth, the heavens should also hear it.'"

佛言：「善男子！法與非法非業作耶？」

> The Buddha said: "Good man! Are Dharma and non-Dharma created by karma?"

先尼言：「瞿曇！是業所作。」

> Xianni said, "Gautama, this is the work of karma."

佛言：「善男子！若法非法是業作者，即是同法。云何言異？何以故？佛得業處，有天得我；天得業處，有佛得我。是故，佛得作時，天得亦作；法與非法亦應如是。善男子！是故，一切眾生法與非法若如是者，所得果報亦應不異。善男子！從子出果，是子終不思惟分別：『我唯當作婆羅門果，不與剎利、毘舍、首陀而作果也。』何以故？從子出果終不障礙如是四姓。法與非法亦復如是，不能分別：『我唯當與佛得作果，不與天得作果；作天得果，不作佛得果。』何以故？業平等故。」

> The Buddha said: "Good man, if right and wrong actions produce the same result, then they are essentially the same. How can you say they are different? Why? Where enlightenment (Buddhahood) arises from karma, there too can heavenly states arise from that karma. Where heavenly states arise from karma, there too can enlightenment arise from that karma. Therefore, when actions lead to enlightenment, they can also lead to heavenly states. The same applies to what we call right and wrong. Good man, if this is true for all beings—that right and wrong actions are essentially the same—then the results they bring should also be the same. Good man, when a seed produces a fruit, the seed does not think: 'I must only produce fruit for Brahmins, and not for Kshatriyas, Vaishyas, or Shudras.' Why? Because the fruit produced from a seed does not discriminate among these four castes. Right and wrong actions are the same; they cannot think: 'I will only produce results for enlightenment, not for heavenly states,' or 'I will produce results for heavenly states, not for enlightenment.' Why? Because all actions are equal in their nature."

先尼言：「瞿曇！譬如一室有百千燈，炷雖有異，明則無差。燈、炷別異，喻法、非法；其明無差，喻眾生我。」

> Xianni said: "Gautama, it's like a room with hundreds of lamps. Though the wicks may differ, their light is the same. The lamps and wicks are different—this represents the Dharma and what is not the Dharma. Their light being the same represents the self in all beings."

佛言：「善男子！汝說燈明以喻我者，是義不然。何以故？室異、燈異，是燈光明亦在炷邊、亦遍室中。汝所言我若如是者，法、非法邊俱應有我，我中亦應有法、非法。若法、非法無有我者，不得說言遍一切處；若俱有者，何得復以炷明為喻？善男子！汝意若謂炷之與明真實別異，何因緣故炷增明盛、炷枯明滅？是故，不應以法、非法喻於燈炷，光明無差喻於我也。何以故？法、非法、我，三事即一。」

> The Buddha said: "Good man! Your analogy comparing me to a lamp is incorrect. Why? Because the room and the lamp are different, and the light of the lamp is both at the wick and throughout the entire room. If what you call 'me' were like this, then both what is in accord with the Dharma and what is not in accord with the Dharma would also contain a 'me,' and within that 'me,' there would also be both the Dharma and what is not. If what is Dharma and what is not have no 'me' within them, then you cannot say it pervades everywhere. If they both have it, then how can you still use the wick and light as an analogy? Good man! If you think the wick and the light are truly distinct, then for what reason does the wick's growth increase the light, and the wick's withering cause the light to go out? Therefore, you should not use what is Dharma and what is not as an analogy for the lamp's wick, nor the light without difference as an analogy for me. Why? Because what is Dharma, what is not, and the 'me'—these three things are one."

先尼言：「瞿曇！汝引燈喻，是事不吉。何以故？燈喻若吉，我已先引；如其不吉，何故復說？」

> Shreni \[said\]: "Gotama, this simile of the lamp you bring forward—it is not an auspicious example. Why? If the simile of the lamp were a good one, I would have used it first. And if it is not good, why bring it up again?"

「善男子！我所引喻都亦不作吉以不吉，隨汝意說，是喻亦說離炷有明、即炷有明。汝心不等，故說燈炷喻法、非法，明則喻我。是故責汝：炷即是明、離炷有明，法即有我、我即有法，非法即我、我即非法。汝今何故但受一邊、不受一邊？如是喻者於汝不吉，是故我今還以教汝。善男子！如是喻者即是非喻，是非喻故，於我即吉、於汝不吉。善男子！汝意若謂：『若我不吉，汝亦不吉。』是義不然。何以故？見世間人自刀、自害、自作、他用，汝所引喻亦復如是，於我則吉，於汝不吉。」

> "Good man! None of the metaphors I have given are inherently auspicious or inauspicious. You may interpret them as you wish. But consider this metaphor: it speaks of whether the flame is separate from the lamp wick, or whether it is one with the wick. Your mind is not impartial, so you interpret the metaphor of the lamp and its wick as representing the Dharma and what is not the Dharma, while the flame represents the self. So I ask you: if the wick is the flame, or if the flame is separate from the wick — in the same way, is the Dharma the self, or is the self separate from the Dharma? Similarly, is what is not the Dharma the self, or is the self separate from what is not the Dharma? Why do you accept only one side of this argument and reject the other? Because this metaphor is unfavorable to you, I now turn it back to teach you. Good man, this metaphor itself is not a valid metaphor. Because it is not a proper metaphor, it is favorable to me and unfavorable to you. Good man, if you think, 'If it is unfavorable to me, then it should also be unfavorable to you,' that is not the case. Why? Because we see in the world that people may harm themselves with their own knife, or create something themselves that others then use. Your metaphor works the same way: it is favorable to me, but unfavorable to you."

先尼言：「瞿曇！汝先責我心不平等，今汝所說亦不平等。何以故？瞿曇！今者以吉向己、不吉向我，以是推之真是不平。」

> Sañjayī said, "Gotama, you first criticized my mind as imbalanced, but now what you have spoken is also imbalanced. Why? Because, Gotama, right now you are assigning auspiciousness to yourself and inauspiciousness to me. From this reasoning, you are truly unbalanced."

佛言：「善男子！如我不平能破汝不平，是故汝平我之不平即是吉也。我之不平破汝不平，令汝得平，即是我平。何以故？同諸聖人得平等故。」

> The Buddha said: "Good man! Just as my inequality can destroy your inequality, so your leveling of my inequality is indeed auspicious. When my inequality overcomes your inequality, allowing you to attain equality, that is my equality. Why is this so? Because it aligns with the equal nature achieved by all the enlightened ones."

先尼言：「瞿曇！我常是平，汝云何言壞我不平？一切眾生平等有我，云何言我是不平耶？」

> Śreṇika said, "Gotama, I hold that the Self is inherently equal. How can you say that I am breaking this equality? All beings equally possess a Self. How do you claim that I am unequal?"

「善男子！汝亦說言當受地獄、當受餓鬼、當受畜生、當受人天，我若先遍五道中者，云何方言當受諸趣？汝亦說言父母和合然後生子，若子先有，云何復言和合已有？是故，一人有五趣身。若是五處先有身者，何因緣故為身造業？是故不平。善男子！汝意若謂我是作者，是義不然。何以故？若我作者，何因緣故自作苦事？然今眾生實有受苦，是故當知我非作者。若言是苦非我所作、不從因生，一切諸法亦當如是不從因生，何因緣故說我作耶？善男子！眾生苦樂實從因緣，如是苦樂能作憂喜，憂時無喜、喜時無憂，或喜、或憂，智人云何說是常耶？

> "Good man! You say that one will experience hell, the realm of hungry ghosts, the animal realm, the human realm, and the heavenly realm. If I already pervade these five realms, then how can you say that one 'will' experience these states? You also say that a child is born only after the union of father and mother. If the child already existed beforehand, then why speak of 'union' bringing it into being? Thus, one person has the potential for existence in all five realms. If the body already existed in these five places, for what reason would one create karma for the body? This is inconsistent. Good man! If you think 'I' am the creator, this is incorrect. Why? If 'I' were the creator, why would I create suffering for myself? Yet sentient beings clearly experience suffering. Therefore, know that 'I' is not the creator. If you say that suffering is not created by 'me' and does not arise from causes, then all phenomena would likewise arise without causes. So why then speak of 'me' as the creator? Good man! The suffering and happiness of sentient beings truly arise from causes and conditions. Such suffering and happiness can give rise to sorrow or joy. When sorrowful, there is no joy; when joyful, there is no sorrow. Sometimes joy, sometimes sorrow. How can a wise person say that this is permanent?"

「善男子！汝說我常，若是常者，云何說有十時別異？常法不應有歌羅邏時乃至老時。虛空常法尚無一時，況有十時？善男子！我者非是歌羅邏時乃至老時，云何說有十時別異？

> "Good man, you speak of me as eternal. If I am indeed eternal, how can there be distinctions of ten different stages? An eternal thing should not have a stage of the embryo or a stage of old age. The eternal nature of space does not even have one stage, let alone ten. Good man, the self is not the stage of the embryo or the stage of old age. How can we speak of distinctions of ten stages?

「善男子！若我作者，是我亦有盛時、衰時，眾生亦有盛時、衰時。若我爾者，云何是常？善男子！我若作者，云何一人有利、有鈍？善男子！我若作者，是我能作身業、口業、意業。若是我所作者，云何口說無有我耶？云何自疑有耶？無耶？

> "Good man! If the 'self' is the doer, then the self would have times of flourishing and times of decay, and sentient beings would also have times of flourishing and times of decay. If that were the case, how could the self be permanent? Good man! If the 'self' is the doer, then why do some people have sharp faculties and others dull ones? Good man! If the 'self' is the doer, then the self would be able to perform physical actions, verbal actions, and mental actions. If all actions come from the self, then why do people say there is no self? And why do they doubt whether it exists or not?"

「善男子！汝意若謂離眼有見，是義不然。何以故？若離眼已別有見者，何須此眼？乃至身根亦復如是。汝意若謂：『我雖能見，要因眼見。』是亦不然。何以故？如有人言：『須曼那花能燒大村。云何能燒？因火能燒。』汝立我見亦復如是。」

> "Good man! If you think that sight can exist apart from the eye, that is not correct. Why? If there were truly sight that existed separate from the eye, what need would there be for the eye? The same reasoning applies to the other sense organs, down to the body itself. If you think: 'Although it is ultimately the self that sees, it still relies on the eye to see,' that is also not correct. Why? This is like someone saying, 'A jasmine flower can burn down a large village.' How can it burn? It is the fire that burns. Your idea that the self sees through the eye is exactly the same."

先尼言：「瞿曇！如人執鎌則能刈草；我因五根見、聞至觸亦復如是。」

> Xianni said, "Gotama! Just as a person holds a sickle and can cut grass, so do I, relying on the five senses, see, hear, and touch things in the same way."

「善男子！人鎌各異，是故執鎌能有所作。離根之外更無別我，云何說言我因諸根能有所作？善男子！汝意若謂：『執鎌能刈，我亦如是。』是我有手耶？為無手乎？若有手者，何不自執？若無手者，云何說言我是作者？善男子！能刈草者即是鎌也，非我、非人。若我人能，何故因鎌？善男子！人有二業：一、則執草，二則、執鎌。是鎌唯有能斷之功，眾生見法亦復如是。眼能見色從和合生，若從因緣和合見者，智人云何說言有我？

> "Good man! A person and a sickle are distinct from each other. That is why by holding a sickle one can accomplish tasks. Apart from the sense faculties, there is no separate self. So how can you say that 'I, by relying on the sense faculties, can perform actions'? Good man! If you think, 'Just as holding a sickle allows one to cut grass, so too do I act,' then do you have hands or not? If you have hands, why not grab the sickle yourself? If you have no hands, how can you claim to be the doer? Good man! The one who cuts the grass is the sickle itself—not a self, not a person. If the self or person could do it, why rely on the sickle? Good man! A person has two actions: one is holding the grass, and the other is holding the sickle. The sickle alone has the function of cutting. The same is true for beings perceiving phenomena. The eye sees forms arising from conditions. If seeing arises from causes and conditions, how can a wise person claim there is a self?"

「善男子！汝意若謂身作我受，是義不然。何以故？世間不見天得作業、佛得受果。若言不是身作、我非因受，汝等何故從於因緣求解脫耶？汝先是身非因緣生，得解脫已，亦應非因而更生身。如身，一切煩惱亦應如是。」

> "Good man! If you think that the body acts and the self receives the results, this idea is incorrect. Why? In this world, we do not see someone like a god performing an action and then a buddha receiving the consequence. If you claim that it is not the body that acts, and not the self that experiences results, then why do you seek liberation through causes and conditions? Your body was not originally born from causes and conditions; if you attain liberation, the body should also be born without causes and conditions. The same principle applies to all afflictions."

先尼言：「瞿曇！我有二種：一者、有知，二者、無知。無知之我能得於身，有知之我能捨離身。猶如坏瓶，既被燒已，失於本色，更不復生；智者煩惱亦復如是，既滅壞已，更不復生。」

> Xianni said: "Gautama, I understand there are two kinds of self: one that is aware, and one that is unaware. The unaware self remains attached to the body, while the aware self can leave it behind. It's like a clay pot that, once fired, loses its original color and can never return to being raw clay again. In the same way, when a wise person's afflictions are completely destroyed, they will never arise again."

佛言：「善男子！所言知者，智能知耶？我能知乎？若智能知，何故說言我是知耶？若我知者，何故方便更求於智？汝意若謂我因智知，同花喻壞。善男子！譬如刺樹，性自能刺，不得說言樹執刺刺；智亦如是，智自能知，云何說言我執智知？

> The Buddha said: "Good man! When we speak of 'knowing,' is it wisdom that knows, or is it that 'I' know? If wisdom knows, why do we say 'I know'? If 'I' know, why then seek wisdom through expedient means? If you claim that 'I' know through wisdom, this breaks down like the example of the flower. Good man! Consider a thorn tree—its nature is to pierce, so it cannot be said that the tree holds a thorn to do the piercing. Wisdom is similar; wisdom itself knows by its own nature. So why say that 'I' wield wisdom to know?"

「善男子！如汝法中我得解脫，無知我得？知我得耶？若無知得，當知猶故具足煩惱；若知得者，當知已有五情諸根。何以故？離根之外別更無知。若具諸根，云何復名得解脫耶？若言是我其性清淨，離於五根，云何說言遍五道有？以何因緣為解脫故修諸善法？善男子！譬如有人拔虛空刺；汝亦如是，我若清淨，云何復言斷諸煩惱？汝意若謂不從因緣獲得解脫，一切畜生何故不得？」

> "Good man! In your teaching, I am said to attain liberation. But is it attained through ignorance? Or is it attained through knowledge? If it is attained through ignorance, then you are still full of afflictions. If it is attained through knowledge, then you must already have the five sense faculties. Why? Because apart from the faculties, there is no other knowledge. If you already have the faculties, how can you still be called 'liberated'? If you say the self is by nature pure and free from the five faculties, then how can you claim it pervades the five realms of existence? And on what grounds would you cultivate good practices for the sake of liberation? Good man! This is like someone trying to pull a thorn out of empty space. You are the same. If I am already pure, why would you speak of 'cutting off afflictions'? And if you believe that liberation is attained without relying on causes and conditions, then why aren't all animals liberated?"

先尼言：「瞿曇！若無我者，誰能憶念？」

> Xianni said, "Gotama! If there is no self, then who is it that remembers?"

佛告先尼：「若有我者，何緣復忘？善男子！若念是我者，何因緣故念於惡念、念所不念、不念所念？」

> The Buddha said to Senni: "If there were a permanent self, how could anything ever be forgotten? Good sir, if the self were truly the one who remembers, why would it ever have evil thoughts, think what it should not think, or fail to think what it should think?"

先尼復言：「瞿曇！若無我者，誰見？誰聞？」

> Then Shreni asked again: "Gotama, if there is no self, then who sees? Who hears?"

佛言：「善男子！內有六入、外有六塵，內外和合生六種識，是六種識因緣得名。善男子！譬如一火，因木得故名為木火、因草得故名為草火、因糠得故名為糠火、因牛糞得名牛糞火。眾生意識亦復如是，因眼、因色、因明、因欲名為眼識。善男子！如是眼識不在眼中乃至欲中，四事和合故生是識；乃至意識亦復如是。若是因緣和合故生智，不應說見即是我乃至觸即是我。善男子！是故我說眼識乃至意識、一切諸法即是幻也。云何如幻？本無今有，已有還無。善男子！譬如蘇麵、蜜薑、胡椒、蓽茇、蒲萄、胡桃、石榴、桵子，如是和合名歡喜丸，離是和合無歡喜丸。內、外六入是名眾生、我、人、士夫，離內、外入無別眾生、我、人、士夫。」

> The Buddha said: “Good man, there are the six internal sense faculties, and the six external sense objects. When the internal and the external come together, the six kinds of consciousness arise. These six kinds of consciousness are named based on their causes and conditions. “Good man, it is like a fire: when it arises from wood, it is called a wood fire; when it arises from grass, it is called a grass fire; when it arises from chaff, it is called a chaff fire; when it arises from cow dung, it is called a cow dung fire. In the same way, the consciousness of sentient beings is named after its conditions. For example, depending on the eye, on a form, on light, and on attention, it is called eye-consciousness. “Good man, this eye-consciousness does not exist in the eye, nor in the form, nor in the light, nor in the attention. It arises only when these four factors come together. The same is true for all consciousnesses down to the mind-consciousness. “If a thought arises from the combination of these causes and conditions, then you should not say, ‘The act of seeing is the self,’ or ‘The act of touching is the self.’ “Good man, that is why I say: from eye-consciousness to mind-consciousness, all phenomena are like an illusion. What does it mean to be like an illusion? It means something that did not exist before now exists, and after it exists, it will eventually disappear.” “Good man, consider ingredients like butter, flour, honey, ginger, pepper, long pepper, grapes, walnuts, pomegranates, and wild jujubes. When mixed together, they are called a happiness ball. Apart from these ingredients, there is no separate ‘happiness ball.’ Similarly, the six internal and six external sense faculties are what we call a sentient being, a self, a person, or a soul. Apart from these internal and external faculties, there is no separate sentient being, self, person, or soul.”

先尼言：「瞿曇！若無我者，云何說言我見、我聞、我苦、我樂、我憂、我喜？」

> Śreṇika said, "Gotama, if there is no self, then why do people say, 'I see, I hear, I suffer, I feel joy, I grieve, I rejoice'?"

佛言：「善男子！若言我見、我聞名有我者，何因緣故世間復言汝所作罪非我見聞？善男子！譬如四兵和合名軍，如是四兵不名為一，而亦說言我軍勇健、我軍勝彼。是內、外入和合所作亦復如是，雖不是一，亦得說言我作、我受、我見、我聞、我苦、我樂。」

> The Buddha said: "Good man! If you claim that 'I see' and 'I hear' prove the existence of a fixed self, then why do people also say, 'The wrongs you committed are not something I see or hear'? Good man! Consider this: An army is formed by the gathering of four divisions of troops, yet these four divisions are not a single entity. Still, we say, 'Our army is strong and brave; our army has defeated them.' In the same way, the internal and external sense bases work together to produce experiences. Although there is no single, unchanging self, we can still say, 'I act, I experience, I see, I hear, I suffer, I enjoy.'"

先尼言：「瞿曇！如汝所言內外和合，誰出聲言我作、我受？」

> Xianni said: "Gautama, as you say, when inner and outer factors combine, who is it that utters the words 'I act, I experience'?"

佛言：「先尼！從愛無明因緣生業，從業生有，從有出生無量心數，心生覺觀，覺觀動風，風隨心觸喉、舌、齒、脣，眾生想倒聲出說言我作、我受、我見、我聞。善男子！如幢頭鈴，風因緣故便出音聲，風大聲大、風小聲小，無有作者。善男子！譬如熱鐵投之水中出種種聲，是中真實無有作者。善男子！凡夫不能思惟分別如是事故，說言有我及有我所、我作、我受。」

> The Buddha said: "Shrenika! From craving and ignorance arise actions; from actions arises the cycle of existence; from the cycle of existence arise countless mental states. With the mind arise perceptions; with perceptions come movement, like wind. As this internal wind touches the throat, tongue, teeth, and lips, beings experience deluded notions and utter sounds, saying: 'I do, I experience, I see, I hear.' Good man! It is like the bell on a flagpole: when the wind blows, a sound is produced. If the wind is strong, the sound is loud; if the wind is light, the sound is soft. Yet there is no maker behind it. Good man! Similarly, when hot iron is thrown into water, various sounds arise, yet in reality, there is no maker behind them. Good man! Ordinary people, unable to contemplate and discern such matters, claim that there is a 'self' and what belongs to 'self', saying 'I act, I experience.'"

先尼言：「如瞿曇說無我、我所，何緣復說常、樂、我、淨？」

> Sīni said: "You say there is no self and nothing that belongs to self—so why do you then speak of permanence, bliss, self, and purity?"

佛言：「善男子！我亦不說內、外六入及六識意常、樂、我、淨。我乃宣說滅內、外入所生六識名之為常；以是常故，名之為我；有常我故，名之為樂；常我樂故，名之為淨。善男子！眾生厭苦，斷是苦因，自在遠離，是名為我。以是因緣，我今宣說常、樂、我、淨。」

> The Buddha said: "Good man, I do not teach that the six inner senses, the six outer objects, or the six consciousnesses are permanent, blissful, self, or pure. Instead, I proclaim that when we end the six consciousnesses arising from inner and outer conditions, that state is called 'permanent.' Because it is permanent, it is called 'self.' Because there is a permanent self, it is called 'bliss.' Because of permanent self and bliss, it is called 'pure.' Good man, sentient beings detest suffering and cut off its causes. Being free and independent from them—that is what I call 'self.' For this reason, I now teach of permanence, bliss, self, and purity."

先尼言：「世尊！唯願大慈為我宣說，我當云何獲得如是常、樂、我、淨？」

> Senni said, "World-Honored One! Please, out of your great compassion, teach me. How can I attain this state of permanence, bliss, self, and pure?"

佛言：「善男子！一切世間從本已來具足大慢、能增長慢，亦復造作慢因、慢業，是故今者受慢果報，不能遠離一切煩惱，得常、樂、我、淨。若諸眾生欲得遠離一切煩惱，先當離慢。」

> The Buddha said: "Good man! From the very beginning, all beings in the world have been full of great arrogance. This arrogance not only grows on its own but also creates the causes and actions of arrogance. That is why they now experience the results of arrogance and cannot escape all afflictions, nor attain Eternity, Bliss, Self, and Purity. If beings wish to be free from all afflictions, they must first let go of arrogance."

先尼言：「世尊！如是如是，誠如聖教。我先有慢，因慢因緣故稱如來你瞿曇姓。我今已離如是大慢，是故誠心啟請求法。云何當得常、樂、我、淨？」

> Senni said: "World-Honored One! What you say is true, exactly as the sacred teaching states. Previously, I harbored arrogance, and because of that arrogance I addressed the Tathagata by your clan name 'Gautama.' Now I have already departed from such great pride, and therefore earnestly and sincerely request the Dharma. How can one attain Permanence, Bliss, Self, and Purity?"

佛言：「善男子！諦聽諦聽，今當為汝分別解說。善男子！若能非自、非他、非眾生者，遠離是法。」

> The Buddha said, "Good man! Listen closely, listen closely. Now I will explain this to you in detail. Good man, if you can recognize that there is no eternal self, no other, and no sentient beings, then you will transcend all such concepts."

先尼言：「世尊！我已知解，得正法眼。」

> Seni said: "World-Honored One! I have now understood and attained the Eye of the True Dharma."

佛言：「善男子！汝云何知已解、已得正法眼？」

> The Buddha said, "Good man, how do you know that you have understood and attained the true Dharma eye?"

「世尊！所言色者，非自、非他、非諸眾生；乃至識亦復如是。我如是觀，得正法眼。世尊！我今甚樂出家修道，願見聽許。」

> "World-Honored One! What we call 'form' has no self, no other, and no beings as such; and the same is true for consciousness, feelings, perceptions, and mental formations. Seeing it this way, I have attained the pure Dharma eye. World-Honored One! Now I deeply wish to renounce the household life and walk the path of practice. Please grant me permission."

佛言：「善來，比丘！」即時具足清淨梵行，證阿羅漢果。

> The Buddha said, "Come, monk." At that moment, he fully attained the pure holy life and realized the fruit of Arhatship (complete liberation).

外道眾中復有梵志姓迦葉氏，復作是言：「瞿曇！身即是命，身異、命異。」如來默然。第二、第三亦復如是。梵志復言：「瞿曇！若人捨身未得後身，於其中間豈可不名身異命異？若是異者，瞿曇何故默然不答？」

> Among the practitioners of other paths, there was a sage of the Kāśyapa family who asked, "Gautama, is the body the same as life? Or is the body different from life?" The Tathāgata remained silent. He asked a second and third time, but still received no answer. The sage then said, "Gautama, when a person leaves their body but has not yet obtained a new one, in that interval, could we not say the body and life are different? If they are different, why do you remain silent and not answer?"

「善男子！我說身、命皆從因緣，非不因緣；如身、命，一切法亦如是。」

> "Good man, I declare that both the body and life arise from causes and conditions, not without causes and conditions. Just as with the body and life, so too do all phenomena arise in this manner."

梵志復言：「瞿曇！我見世間有法不從因緣。」

> The Brahmin said again, "Gotama, I see things in this world that do not arise from causes and conditions."

佛言：「梵志！汝云何見世間有法不從因緣？」

> The Buddha said, "Brahma, how is it that you see anything in this world that does not arise from causes and conditions?"

梵志言：「我見大火焚燒榛木，風吹絕焰，墮在餘處，是豈不名無因緣耶？」

> The brahmin said: "I saw a great fire burning through a thicket. A gust of wind separated a flame from the fire and carried it to another place. Could this not be called something happening without a cause?"

佛言：「善男子！我說是火亦從因生，非不從因。」

> The Buddha said, "Good man, I say that this fire also arises from causes, it does not arise without causes."

梵志言：「瞿曇！絕焰去時不因薪炭，云何而言因於因緣？」

> The Brahmin asked: "Venerable Gautama, when a flame is extinguished without relying on firewood or charcoal, how then can you say it still depends on causes and conditions?"

佛言：「善男子！雖無薪炭，因風而去，風因緣故，其焰不滅。」

> The Buddha said, "Good man, even without firewood or charcoal, if the wind continues, the flame does not go out because of the wind as a supporting condition."

「瞿曇！若人捨身未得後身，中間壽命誰為因緣？」

> "Gotama, if a person has left one body but not yet taken on the next, what is the cause of their life in the intermediate state?"

佛言：「梵志！無明與愛而為因緣。是無明、愛二因緣故，壽命得住。善男子！有因緣故，身即是命、命即是身；有因緣故，身異、命異。智者不應一向而說身異、命異。」

> The Buddha said: "Brahmin, ignorance and craving act as the causal conditions. Because of these two causes—ignorance and craving—life persists. Good man, under certain conditions, the body is identical to life, and life is identical to the body. Under other conditions, the body is separate from life, and life is separate from the body. A wise person should not insist on a one-sided claim that the body and life are completely separate."

梵志言：「世尊！唯願為我分別解說，令我了了得知因果。」

> A Brahmin said: "World-Honored One! I beg you to explain this to me clearly, so that I may thoroughly understand cause and effect."

佛言：「梵志！因即五陰，果亦五陰。善男子！若有眾生不然火者，是則無煙。」

> The Buddha said: "Brahmāṇa, the cause is the Five Aggregates, and the result is also the Five Aggregates. Good man, if a being does not light a fire, then there will be no smoke."

梵志言：「世尊！我已知已，我已解已。」

> The brahmin said, "Lord, I have understood. I have realized."

佛言：「善男子！汝云何知？云何解？」

> The Buddha said, "Good man, how do you understand this? How do you interpret it?"

「世尊！火即煩惱，能於地獄、餓鬼、畜生、人、天燒然；煙者，即是煩惱果報，無常、不淨、臭穢可惡，是故名煙。若有眾生不作煩惱，是人則無煩惱果報。是故，如來說不然火則無有煙。世尊！我已正見，唯願慈矜，聽我出家。」

> "World-Honored One! Fire is like the afflictions—it burns in the realms of hell, hungry ghosts, animals, humans, and gods. The smoke is the retribution of these afflictions: impermanent, impure, foul, and detestable. That is why it is called smoke. If a being creates no afflictions, then that person bears no fruit of afflictions. Therefore, the Tathāgata says: if you do not light a fire, there will be no smoke. World-Honored One! I have now seen this truth correctly. I only ask that you, out of compassion, allow me to leave home and become a monk."

爾時，世尊告憍陳如：「聽是梵志出家受戒。」時憍陳如受佛勅已，和合眾僧聽其出家，受具足戒。經五日已，得阿羅漢果。

> Then the World-Honored One said to Kaudinya, "Allow this Brahmin to leave home and receive the precepts." Kaudinya, having received the Buddha's instruction, assembled the monastic community and permitted him to renounce the household life and receive full ordination. After five days had passed, he attained the fruit of Arhatship.

外道眾中復有梵志名曰富那，復作是言：「瞿曇！汝見世間是常法已，說言常耶？如是義者，實耶？虛耶？常、無常、亦常無常、非常非無常，有邊、無邊、亦有邊亦無邊、非有邊非無邊，是身、是命、身異、命異，如來滅後，如去、不如去、亦如去不如去，非如去非不如去？」

> Among the followers of other paths, there was a sage named Purna, who then spoke these words: "Gotama, having seen that the world is permanent, do you declare it as eternal? Is such a statement true or false? Is it permanent, impermanent, both permanent and impermanent, or neither permanent nor impermanent? Is it finite, infinite, both finite and infinite, or neither finite nor infinite? Is the self the same as the body, or is the body different from the self? After the Tathagata’s passing, does he go elsewhere, not go elsewhere, both go and not go, or neither go nor not go?"

佛言：「富那！我不說世間常虛、實，常、無常、亦常無常，非常非無常，有邊、無邊、亦有邊無邊、非有邊非無邊，是身、是命、身異、命異。如來滅後如去、不如去、亦如去不如去、非如去非不如去。」

> The Buddha said, "Fuṇṇa, I do not teach that the world is permanent or impermanent, both permanent and impermanent, or neither permanent nor impermanent. I do not teach that it is finite or infinite, both finite and infinite, or neither finite nor infinite. I do not teach that the body and the life force are the same, or that they are different. I do not teach that the Tathāgata exists after death, does not exist, both exists and does not exist, or neither exists nor does not exist."

富那復言：「瞿曇！今者見何罪過不作是說？」

> Fuanna then asked, "Gotama, what flaw do you see now that you choose not to say?"

佛言：「富那！若有人說：『世間是常，唯此為實，餘妄語。』者，是名為見。見所見處，是名見行、是名見業、是名見著、是名見縛、是名見苦、是名見取、是名見怖、是名見熱、是名見纏。富那！凡夫之人為見所纏，不能遠離生、老、病、死，迴流六趣，受無量苦；乃至非如去非不如去亦復如是。富那！我見是見有如是過，是故不著、不為人說。」

> The Buddha said: "Purna, if someone claims: 'The world is eternal; this alone is true, all else is false speech' — this is called a view. The object that such a view sees is called a view's path, a view's action, a view's attachment, a view's bondage, a view's suffering, a view's grasping, a view's fear, a view's fever, a view's entanglement. Purna, ordinary people are entangled by such views and cannot escape birth, aging, sickness, and death. They circle through the six realms of existence, experiencing immeasurable suffering. The same applies to views such as 'the world is not eternal,' 'the world is both eternal and not eternal,' 'the world is neither eternal nor not eternal,' and so on, down to the extreme of 'the Tathāgata neither goes nor does not go after death.' Purna, I see the faults inherent in these views, therefore I do not cling to them, nor do I teach them to others."

「瞿曇！若見如是罪過不著、不說。瞿曇今者何見？何著？何所宣說？」

> "Gotama, if you do not see any fault and do not cling to any view, then what do you actually see? What do you hold to? What do you teach?"

佛言：「善男子！夫見著者，名生死法。如來已離生死法故，是故不著。善男子！如來名為能見、能說，不名為著。」

> The Buddha said, “Good man, attachment is what keeps beings trapped in birth and death. The Tathagata has already transcended birth and death, and therefore is not attached. Good man, the Tathagata is called one who sees and teaches clearly—not one who clings.”

「瞿曇！云何能見？云何能說？」

> "Gotama, how does one truly see? How does one truly speak?"

佛言：「善男子！我能明見苦、集、滅、道，分別宣說如是四諦。我見如是，故能遠離一切見、一切愛、一切流、一切慢。是故我具清淨梵行，無上寂靜，獲得常身，是身亦非東、西、南、北。」

> The Buddha said: "Good people, I clearly see Suffering, its Origin, its Cessation, and the Path. I can clearly explain these Four Noble Truths to you one by one. Because I see them as they truly are, I am able to go beyond all views, all attachments, all cravings, and all arrogance. Therefore, I live a pure and holy life, dwell in perfect peace, and have attained a timeless body—a body that is not confined to east, west, south, or north."

富那言：「瞿曇！何因緣故常身非是東、西、南、北？」

> Furana asked: "Gotama, for what reason is the body not fixed to the east, west, south, or north?"

佛言：「善男子！我今問汝，隨汝意答。於意云何？善男子！如於汝前然大火聚，當其然時，汝知然不？」

> The Buddha said, "Good man! I now ask you a question, and you may answer as you understand. What do you think? Good man, if a great blazing fire were kindled before you, while it was burning, would you know that it was burning?"

「如是。瞿曇！」

> "Yes, Gautama."

「是火滅時，汝知滅不？」

> "When the fire goes out, do you know that it has gone out?"

「如是。瞿曇！」

> "Yes, Gautama."

「富那！若有人問汝：『前火聚然從何來？滅何所至？』當云何答？」

> "Purna! If someone asks you: 'This burning mass of fire in front—where did it come from, and where does it go when it is extinguished?' How would you answer?"

「瞿曇！若有問者，我當答言：『是火生時賴於眾緣，本緣已盡，新緣未至，是火則滅。』」

> "Gotama, if someone were to ask me, I would say: 'A fire arises depending on many conditions. When its original conditions are exhausted and new conditions have not yet arisen, that fire goes out.'"

「若復有問：『是火滅已至何方面？』復云何答？」

> Suppose someone asks: "That fire, once it's gone out, which direction did it go to?" How would you answer that question?

「瞿曇！我當答言：『緣盡故滅，不至方所。』」

> "Gotama, I would reply: 'Because conditions have come to an end, it ceases, without going anywhere.'"

「善男子！如來亦爾，若有無常色乃至無常識，因愛故然，然者即受二十五有。是故然時可說是火東、西、南、北。現在愛滅，二十五有果報不然；以不然故，不可說有東、西、南、北。善男子！如來已滅無常之色至無常識，是故身常。身若是常，不得說有東、西、南、北。」

> "Good man! The Tathagata is also like this. If there were impermanent form up to impermanent consciousness, it would be because of craving. That which is so (afflicted) then receives the twenty-five realms of existence. Therefore, when this affliction is active, we can speak of the fire being in the east, west, south, or north. But when craving ceases now, the karmic results of the twenty-five realms do not arise; because they do not arise, we cannot speak of them being in the east, west, south, or north. Good man! The Tathagata has already extinguished impermanent forms up to impermanent consciousness, and therefore his body is eternal. Since the body is eternal, we cannot speak of it being in the east, west, south, or north."

富那言：「請說一喻，唯願聽採。」

> Purna said, "Please give me a simile or metaphor to explain this, if you would allow me to share it."

佛言：「善哉，善哉。隨意說之。」

> The Buddha said, "Excellent, excellent. Say whatever you wish."

「世尊！如大村外有娑羅林，中有一樹先林而生，足一百年。是時，林主灌之以水，隨時修治。其樹陳朽，皮膚枝葉悉皆脫落，唯貞實在。如來亦爾，所有陳故悉已除盡，唯有一切真實法在。世尊！我今甚樂出家修道。」

> "World-Honored One! Just as in a sal forest outside a large village, there stands a tree that grew there long before the rest, fully a hundred years old. At that time, the forest keeper waters it and tends to it regularly. This tree has grown old and decayed—its bark, branches, and leaves have all fallen away, leaving only the solid core behind. Likewise, the Tathāgata has shed everything worn and outdated, and only the true and genuine Dharma remains. World-Honored One, I now deeply wish to leave home and pursue the path of awakening."

佛言：「善來，比丘！」

> The Buddha said, "Welcome, monk."

說是語已，即時出家，漏盡證得阿羅漢果。

> Having said these words, he immediately left the householder's life, eradicated all defilements, and attained the fruit of Arhatship.

## 大般涅槃經卷第三十五

> Mahaparinirvana Sutra, Volume 35